rhetorical question number 86897113 b

 

is chaos defined no longer chaotic?  it seems to me that we wouldnt be able to comprehend chaos - it wouldnt have a form or order for us to digest and dumb down into our human logic pallate.  I think if chaos exists, it could only exist outside of this realm of order...  because if it was held inside of this realm, its parent would be order and therefore chaos would stem from order - which is paradoxical in the bad way.  so , if chaos exists, it would have to exist somewhere else.  But i think if it 'exists' at all in the first place, it's succumbing to an orderly event that can be defined and pintpointed and spoken about and understood (existence)....  so my bet is that chaos doesn't exist.  a chaos defined has become orderly through the logical process of definition.

to see chaos is to understand that it is chaos.... but how could we understand something that wont prostrate itself before a definition and, therefore, be understood?

 one cant understand what evades understanding itself, what is dwelling in the deepest shadows where there is no light to illuminate it.......inside a perfect darkness.  a wall we cannot breach,  a perfect dark is something we will not see and cannot comprehend...  which might as well be 'nothing.'  but does nothing defined (ie "nothingness")  become a something?  I dont know.  Trying to wrap my mind around something that cannot be enveloped.  it is too much for me.

 All i know is that what is orderly (science/creation/whatever) seems to not be able to give birth to chaos.  I doubt anyone can NAME or DESCRIBE an instance of true chaos.  We say things like "the chaos that ensued the hurricane" but we really mean that wind is logical, it was logical for the houses to get knocked down, logical for there to be extensive damage in the aftermath.  We say "the chaos of the bomb explosion"  but a bomb is logical, and the crater of the bomb is orderly and the blast is orderly and the carnage makes sense.

So if chaos is a synonym for lack of reason, lack of understanding, lack of the orderly, lack of the logical - the mere fact that these faculties exist (reasoning, understanding, order, logic)  seem like they should  point us to the logical conclusion that there is a reason for existence - and therefore, an Intellect behind the intelligence.  A Creator behind the creature.

 so, one might get pissed at this next bit- thinking i set you up or something.  but honestly, i sat here and thought this out for like 45 mins, going back and forth over the logic of what i was writing.  and when all was said and done, i read back over what i had written and there seemed to be no better way to sum it up than with a verse that didnt come into my mind until after i read over my entry. 

Romans 1:19"..since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made..."

 

BlackFire on
have you ever considered joining harvard?? dude man, you talk like a professer of science. but yeah, chaos exists everywhere. there is no such thing as order unless its in the person's mind...no such thing as order....no matter who orderly something may seem it is only orderly in the one persons mind, for, isn't there another person who does not think it so orderly? consider this 1000 yr old wisdom from a 16 yr old girl named amber...
johnlanguage on
that seems to me like saying that science or creation don't exist b/c there's no one there to perceive it... or like asking "do trees that fall in the forest when there's no one around make sound?" if a three month old can't fathom the concepts of gravity or motion or light or evolution, does that mean these things don't exist? maybe they dont to the child, but they certainly affect the child unbeknownst to it... it sees because there's light, it releases a toy from it's hand and it falls due to gravity. These things seem like constants, and if not - they're relative to creation and seemingly not relative to man. gravity is gravity, order is order, electrons are electrons - whether man perceives them or not. the existence of order does not hinge on the perception of it by man, rather, man's existence hinges on the pre-human constants found inside the order of things that made a suitable environment for life to begin with in the first place. but hey, im no teacher.
niclan06 on
Ow...my brain hurts now!!!! ~*Nicole*~
TheJoeD on
Chaos, like many things, is opinion. Some people define Black Friday as Chaos....but not the bean counters. Some describe a protest as chaos, others consider it a movement towards peace. Through chaos comes order, through order comes chaos. It's nery impossible to tack a definition on something that can only be defined as a lack of something; in this case it's order. How little order is there before it becomes chaos? Like with faith...where is the line between faith and insanity? Does it depend on how many people share that faith? If one person believed that his golden retreiver was the son of god, we would say he was crazy, but if he got a million people to believe it, then it's not so crazy. As far as crazy goes, you'll drive yourself crazy with this line of thought. Some things just....are
johnlanguage on
i dont want to get caught up splitting hairs over language here, but i think chaos being subject to opinion nullifies itself. it takes consciousness, perception, thought, light, life, breath, working physical body parts behind the perception - all of these things are the filter through which true chaos should not be able to pass. a chaos perceived/understood has been subjected to a filtering into the realm of order. true chaos should have no master, it seems, not subject to things like definition or opinion or understanding... In fact, i would propose that there's such a barrier between US and IT that the moment we start thinking about it or using language to speak about it, we're no longer speaking about IT at all because IT, afterall, is not really an "IT" but an "IS NOT" (in the best human terms i can put it in). I would submit that true chaos does not exist if indeed existence is either governed by science or God. Where there is existence, there is either divine reason or scientific explanation and either of these two possibilities would utterly destroy true chaos because chaos spurns and will not be explained or reasoned. It can have nothing. No qualities. No attributes. Nothing. It evades all perception and understanding..... dodges all squinting eyes and logic that strain to see it. will not be subject to the heirarchy of existence, and therefore I submit, does not exist. What if five billion people believed the earth was flat? Would that change the truth that the earth is actually round? Therefore, outside of relative opinions there is such thing as Absolute Truth. Man may never know the mathematical equations that are responsible for all of existence, but that doesn't mean those equations aren't there and don't hold everything together. It's the same thing with God. Everyone asks the question WHY are we here? People have a range of different OPINIONS on that matter. But the TRUTH is the TRUTH underneath and overhead all opinions of man. Therefore, men who claim faith only have true faith if the faith has the substance of the Absolute Truth behind it. Otherwise that faith is either just A) opinion or B) deception. great comment, man. challenging questions.
TheJoeD on
Now that's the real ticket...what is that line of thought that we cannot see? The line that says "this is just stupid, it's impossible for the world to be flat". I guess it is the one human who sees the forest through the trees without bumbling blindly through the woods. In any respect, one should ask 'what are we doing here?' rather than 'why are we here'. If we focused on what our individual purpose was on Earth, rather than the purpose of life, perhaps it would breed more creative innovators rather than more flocks of sheep. Could we say that chaos only exists because we are governed by rules of both a church and state, which in turn causes us to tap into our own primal chaotic rebelliousness? Or is chaos something that happens naturally? Does nature itself create chaos? (Hurricanes, etc)
johnlanguage
Male - 28 years old
LOS ANGELES, CA
United States
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